Mormon Position on Gay

Here is a link to a new website the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints has created to ... explain?  Support?  You decide.  I am welcoming it with open arms and a disco dance of joy. 
http://www.mormonsandgays.org/

Gay, Eagle Scout Wanna-be

Follow the gay scout eagle dude, Ryan Anderson.

If you can offer support in any civil way you can -- by getting involved in youth programs in the community or in your church where you are -- it would mean a lot to the human community.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/09/14293913-gay-scouts-come-out-rally-around-teens-eagle-scout-bid?lite

Slate Magazine wants to know “Why a religion, notorious in the gay community might be “evolving”

In a June article in Slate by Max Perry Mueller, Josh Weed is presented in a photo with his wife and three lovely children under the headline, "Can you be both Mormon and Gay?"

It's an age old question, and one that I have always felt warrants discussion.

Of course the answer people come to is "yes, and let me count the ways, names, faces of those gay and Mormon THAT HAVE COME OUT, let alone those who haven’t."

But that wasn’t what the story was about anyway, so I didn’t get all worked up. The focus was on whether the LDS church is, specifically, “evolving”. The implication: moving into a position of tolerance for homosexuals in full fellowship in the LDS church.

The quick answer is "No," the church is not evolving into a place where it will allow Homosexuals “full rights.”

I say this with important definitions in mind. Let’s run over them quickly…

If a homosexual is a man attracted to and has sex with his own sex, then no. The LDS Church will not evolve on this point. There is no sex before marriage in a stance of morality. Temple marriage privilege will never be allowed for same sex couples.

This is my opinion, though I don’t think it is much of an opinion. I think I was just stating fact.

If a homosexual is attracted to ones same sex, and does not have sex outside standard man/woman marriage (clearly), who remains chaste, morally clean as it were, he may have temple privileges. But, still no marriage of same sex couples. The only evolving here is that the guidelines have been clarified in the last fifteen years so that members and leaders understand that one can be sexually attracted to ones same sex and remain morally clean.

If this is categorized as evolving, then yes, the church has evolved in this regard.

However, this is not what Slate magazine has in mind.

As far as same sex marriage, the church is not in a position of authority (influence, yes) but they can control, and rightly so, temple marriages /sealings. And I think temple marriages /sealings will never be for same sex partners.

This from the article, “Last week, Josh Weed and his wife, Lolly, marked their 10-year anniversary by announcing together on Josh’s blog that he is gay. Josh works as a marriage and family therapist in Auburn, Wash. He and Lolly have three daughters, and claim to have a very successful marriage—one that includes, in their opinion, “a better sex life” than most heterosexual couples.

Weed says that this decision is an entirely satisfying one. “I am gay. I am Mormon. I am married to a woman. I am happy every single day.”

Since Josh had come out, several other men who have previously come out as gay and living their religious ideals have come our nodding their head in affirmation, such as blogger Andrew Sullivan, Catholic, and Ty Mansfield, a Mormon father and husband. His comments from LDS Living. Follow...

“After years of counseling focused on his depression and childhood insecurities—but not, Mansfield insists, on “reorientation” to heterosexuality—he “felt healthy and empowered enough that when I met my wife, it all came together.” Like Weed, Mansfield, who recently had his first child with his wife Danielle, does not identify as “straight.” “Why should I replace one socio-identity construct with another?” he asks. “My goal isn’t to be straight, but a man who is honoring my covenants and [has] a healthy relationship with my wife.” While Mansfield still experiences some attraction to other men, he says, “at some point you decide you’re going to commit to one person you love, just like mature straight men do. I don’t feel like I’m suppressing anything. I focus my energy into my marriage.”

Dear Mr. Mansfield. I have made the same decisions that the two of you -- Mr Weed -- have. Frankly, and I don’t want to put any pressure on you, but please keep your money where your mouth is. There are many LDS holding ya’ll up as an example -- me included.

Did I say, me included?

Thank you for sharing so publicly, and may your freak flag never wave.



Cal Thompson

Add the words?

Never heard of it? This may deserve a few minutes of your time.

http://addthewords.org/

Notice there is no photo with this post.  WORDS.

Neiner, neiner to sayers of neigh

I  took a little time off to write a book, get a kid graduated from High School, grow my hair and re-access my stance on gay Mormons and marriage and gay and Mormons and all of them together  -- to consider and compare and contemplate. 

As it turns out, I was right.  Love it when that happens.

I'm back  -- Cal Thompson

LDS Church--Responce to Calf decision

Email Print 07 February 2012 — Salt Lake City


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued the following statement today regarding the decision on Proposition 8 by a federal appeals court in California:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regrets today’s decision. California voters have twice determined in a general election that marriage should be recognized as only between a man and a woman. We have always had that view. Courts should not alter that definition, especially when the people of California have spoken so clearly on the subject.

Millions of voters in California sent a message that traditional marriage is crucial to society. They expressed their desire, through the democratic process, to keep traditional marriage as the bedrock of society, as it has been for generations.

We recognize that this decision represents a continuation of what has been a vigorous public debate over the rights of the people to define and protect the fundamental institution of marriage. There is no doubt that today’s ruling will intensify the debate in this country. We urge people on all sides of this issue to act in a spirit of mutual respect and civility toward those with a different opinion.

The latest stance on Homosexuality by the LDS Church

I was there in the conference center when President Boyd K. Packer was brought out on his wheel chair for the commemoration of 100 years of seminary. Watching him get set up, and watching the care with which he was assisted, I had two thoughts that I am slightly embarrassed to admit to. 

The first was that the brethren assign him difficult topics because he may be not long for this world with his advanced age they would rather blame any harshness or insensitivity on him.
My second thought was that maybe it is just old school to say what he thinks, and Boyd K packer certainly does. The “oh, that’s just Elder Packer.” Has been used plenty to “excuse his brashness. 

Getting ready to choose his sexual preference?

I often wonder whether that was said of Lehi – certainly his wife said it in 1^st Nephi chapter 5.  Visionary it was called.  Until he was proved right.  It may take a bit longer for history to prove that Elder Packer was right.


I was not surprised to hear him take on “Gender issues.” Regardless of the topic, he seems to bring gender issues to the fore front, and frankly I am glad that he does.  I want them talked about in the church.  I may or may not agree with everything the church publicly states on the subject, but I am thrilled when it is brought up in a way that can’t be ignored—like in the conference center live to thousands of young men and women and their parents.

"You cannot lie or cheat or steal or act immorally and have those (spiritual) channels remain free from disruption," he said – parentheses added. "Do not go where the environment resists spiritual communication. You must learn to seek the power and direction that is available to you, and then follow that course no matter what."

So far, so good.

Sharing a "to do" list with the youth, President Packer described things individuals can do in their lives to have the direction of the spirit. He spoke about prayer, following the word of wisdom and keeping one's body clean. He also spoke of the importance of staying morally clean and the eternal nature of gender.

"This matter of gender is of great concern to the Brethren, as are all matters of morality," he said.

Here we go.

"A few of you may have felt or been told that you were born with troubling feelings and that you are not guilty if you act on those temptations. Doctrinally we know that if that were true, your agency would have been erased, and that cannot happen. You always have a choice to follow the promptings of the Holy Ghost and live a morally pure and chaste life, one filled with virtue. …

"You have ... agency. Use it wisely to deny acting on any impure impulse or unholy temptation that may come into your mind," President Packer said.

"The key word is discipline — self discipline," he said. "The word discipline comes from the word disciple or follower. Be a disciple/follower of the Savior and you will be safe."
He was clear to iterate that sex between those unmarried “members of either gender” is wrong, and “is a standard of the church that will not change.”

Well, I agree with him—which doesn’t make for very interesting blogging.  I would, personally like to change the wording slightly, but only slightly, and it may not be an issue at all depending on how you look at it.  I will explain my POV.

It has to do with this thought of his: “A few of you may have felt or been told that you were born with troubling feelings and that you are not guilty if you act on those temptations. Doctrinally we know that if that were true, your agency would have been erased, and that cannot happen.”

One of my feelings is that I was born with the inclinations of being gay (same sex/gender attracted, with homosexual inclinations, whatever wording you choose.) I don’t remember ever choosing to whom I was sexually attracted.  Most of the SGAttracted folk I know do not remember their sexual preference as a choice they made.  Like the straight folk, it seems to be innate.  I prefer girls.  I prefer guys.

Yes, it may have been nurture—I fit into just about every stereotypical family mess that has been presented as the “Cause” of Homosexuality.  If these were my environment before an age of accountability, then is there agency involved?  Or is the agency activated when I decide where to go from that point on?  Once I realized that I was attracted to my same gender, and it is too late to be born into another environment,  there are choices to be made.  Agency.

So I differ somewhat in the thinking that there is one cookie cutter and that we all came from that exact standard.  There is too much personality and individuality, and we know so little about genetics and gender to make a ruling.  Is it possible that someone is born with the inclination to prefer one gender over the other? I think yes. 

Does this negate agency?  No.

In the first place, I can still choose who I have sex with.  In the second place, and more to President Packers point, I may have been given the opportunity to ok any challenges or personality issues that the Lord saw fit to bestow upon me in the pre-earth life. We agreed to come to earth to get bodies and to make choices that would bring us back to heavenly father.   

The assumption by many is that our choices and our agency began after we were born.  I say they started before that.