They That Be With Us - Chapter 6

This is the sixth chapter of  "They That Be WIth Us,"  which is my Big Gay Book.  How can I be a real Morman and write a Big Gay Book? Just like this...

Pulling back to See the Bigger Picture;

Expanding our View

A man came across 3 stone-cutters working in a quarry – each busily cutting a block of stone. Interested, he asked the first stone-cutter what he was doing. "I am cutting a block of stone!" the stone-cutter muttered.  Wanting more information, the man turned to the next stone-cutter and asked him the same question. “I am cutting this block of stone to make sure that it is exact so that it will fit in its place in a wall." He said with a smile.  Still unclear, the man asked his question to the third stone-cutter who seemed to be the happiest of the three who replied: “I am building a cathedral.”

W

 hen I was 9 I used to pretend that I was an alien prince--left on this planet due to superior intelligence.  My task here on lowly Earth was to learn humility, to show my loyalty, and to earn my father -- the king’s -- respect.  In my little story I needed to experience what was needed in order to be a better ruler and then he would send his finest warriors to bring me back home where I would reign with wisdom and possibly a cape.

 

It was a silly story even then but it helped me to cope.

The real story is even better than I ever imagined, and because I know the real story I can cope and do so nicely.  And, I am not coming into the story in the middle of it.  I know the beginning, the middle – where I am now – and I have an idea about the end. In short, I understand the big picture. The little things, or the medium things - heck, even the huge bolder that drops on my path can be stepped around as long as I know the big picture. 

My first story wasn’t too far off. I was sent to earth by the Father to -- among other things – learn humility. And I will gain wisdom and show loyalty so that I can return to Him in honor.

Possibly with a cape.

Cal’s Quick Pre-existence Refresher

I have always known that our life as we know it here didn’t begin at birth. We are children of Heavenly parents and our father is God the King. That is the first part of the story.  Mormons know all about the pre-existence.

Much like the legendary Camelot, our pre-mortal home was a place of beauty, light, and love. Our purpose there was to learn as much as we could.  As lovely as things were there, some of us may have realized that we were ready to have more, to accomplish more, and to simply be more than we had been up to that point.

 

One day our Father gathered us in and gave us instruction. He presented a plan. (Every good ruler has a clear plan of action, and our Father certainly would). He shared details with us that, in our excitement and inexperience, we hadn't considered. The plan was this; We would leave His presence, get a body, and use our agency to choose to follow Him – or not to follow him. We would be challenged.

He asked us to sustain His plan.  We said yes, and we meant yes.

I may not have understood the particulars, like why there needed to be someone to take responsibility for us.  But I knew that Father in His perfect wisdom and intelligence knew all things. I trusted Him to know.  It was His job to know.

Out of love for us Jesus volunteered to be our Savior. He wanted to follow God’s plan, and was happy to let the glory remain with Heavenly Father. He would accept the punishment for the mistakes we’d on earth, making it possible for us to return home after we’d completed our assignments on earth. I so loved Him even before He stepped up, and that love doubled along with my respect.

Another volunteered also. Both of my elder brothers were strong and powerful. I looked up to and loved each of them. But Lucifer wanted Heavenly Father to change His plan. Lucifer proposed to save everyone by taking away our ability to choose right from wrong.  He guaranteed that none of us would be lost.  Lucifer also wanted the honor to go to him instead of Father.

Once it was explained, I knew who best represented me, who I wanted to serve and follow. Heavenly Father’s plan stood, and He chose Jesus to be our Savior. Lucifer was angry and rebelled.  It got bad quickly. Things were said that I’d never heard before, and there were emotions I’d never felt.  There were divisions in a family that had never been divided. Some of my brothers and sisters felt differently than I did. I tried to convince them – I can be very convincing. I may have told a joke to lighten the mood so we could focus on the truth of the matter. We all tried.

It was over for some of us then and there. I was saddened for my brothers and sisters who were cast out.  I am sad now thinking of them, but we moved on.

Jesus was in charge of us now. We may have met with Him one on one, I don't know. I don't remember, (though I truly am excited for the day when I do). He had individual plans of action for us. Every good ruler has a clear plan of action. We confirmed that, yes, what we wanted more than anything was to be like Father.

Our elder brother showed us how...

How It Was

Julie:  You can see that Cal had a background in theater and has a very creative imagination.  Still, his view is pretty close to what we know of the pre-existence from scriptures and prophetic revelation. God had a plan. Jesus volunteered to follow through, and Satan said his way was better. Utilizing our agency, we chose to follow God. The reason this is so important -- and the reason I let Cal wax-on -- is because we want everyone to remember what we were once a part of, and what our lineage is. Knowing who we were back then will assist us in knowing who we are now. We were the valiant and the righteous.  We were the ones who said no to force and yes to agency. We fought for the right to make our own choices, and we are still those brave and valiant spirits today.
 

Calvin: Reader, do you doubt it?  Find out for yourself. This is one of the perks of personal revelation, a gift graciously given through the Holy Ghost. The Lord wants us to know.  He is expecting us to ask.

I believe I had a PPI of sorts before I came to earth.  I believe that I agreed to come at a prescribed time and place, with talents and abilities. I may have been aware of the specifics, and I am speaking of SGA.  I believe that I agreed to take on the frailties, challenges, benefits, and abilities

Elder Spencer W Kimball said, “We knew before we were born that we were coming to the earth for bodies and experience and that we would have joys and sorrows, pain and comforts, ease and hardships, health and sickness, successes and disappointments; and we knew also that we would die. We accepted all these eventualities with a glad heart eager to accept both the favorable and unfavorable… We were willing to come and take life as it came.”

Julie: Have you ever thought about how much we really understood before we came to earth? I wonder if we got to pick the trials we would face on earth or the weakness we would have to overcome, or the strengths we would be blessed with.

Calvin: I’m not sure, but I think with agency being such an issue for us, we may have had some sort of “say” in the matter of our progression.  How much “say” I don’t know.  I’m not sure a wise and loving God would just let us choose our own failings with limited knowledge and experience. How could we know at such a young stage of existence what trials or weaknesses would do us the greatest good?  At that point in our lives, we would simply have had no frame of reference.

I think we agreed to come to earth with some understanding of the risks involved, as much as we could understand about something we had yet to experience.  I can’t imagine that any contributions we made would have been monumental, but the idea that we had a say in the matter is crucial to me -- even if that say was, “Okay, I agree.”

We knew that God’s purpose for sending us to earth was to obtain knowledge of good and evil, and we knew that striving to be like Him, in conjunction with the Atonement, would give us the best shot.

“His purpose is to help us qualify for the blessing of living with Him and His Son, Jesus Christ, forever in glory and in families. To qualify for that gift we had to receive a mortal body. With that mortality, we understood that we would be tested by temptations and by difficulties. - Henry B. Eyring

I don't know what your personal plan of action was. I wasn’t present for your PPI. But I have a good idea.  I’m gaining a more clear understanding of mine daily.

Very Big Picture

Julie: The Lord has been decidedly vocal on who He is and what His intentions are.  In revelations given to Moses and others in the Old Testament, in talks presented to His disciples in the New Testament, in His appearances to the peoples of the Book of Mormon and to Joseph Smith, the Lord declared Himself and His purposes.  His aim is to bring all those who will follow Him to the blessing of eternal life or Gods life: Undying love, power, never-ending creativity, fellowship and eternal brotherhood.  Ceaseless, timeless, everlasting. Very big picture.

He has also been clear that no one can frustrate the works, designs, or purposes of God, nor bring them to naught. God does not walk in crooked paths. His ways are straight; He turns neither to the right nor left, and his course is one eternal round. He gives us instruction and exhorts us to follow His will.

The Lord is saying that if we stick close to Him, He can offer us protection.  As demonstrated by His actions and instruction, our Savior cares for us and wants us to be safe. 

Calvin:  By virtue of our birthright, all of us have the power to learn and grow in ways we can’t even imagine. Through our own innate abilities and by accessing the power of the atonement to enhance the individual traits that make us who we are, we can achieve and accomplish things beyond our own dreams.

With this capacity why do we doubt our own natural abilities and let cynicism call the shots?  Because we do not believe it. Because we forget about Gods plan and the big picture. We forget to step back or look up.

A Lesson in Sidewalk Observance

Julie:  A social experiment was conducted in a major city, to see how people would respond to a tree full of free money. They chose a tree that grew along a sidewalk on a busy thoroughfare and paper clipped one hundred, one dollar bills to the branches. Each bill carried a removable sticker that included messages such as, “Hey Free Money” or “Don’t Ask, Just Enjoy”. A hidden video was then used to record the reactions of those who passed by.

It was interesting to observe how many people walked by the tree aflutter with green dollar bills and didn’t even look at it. Other’s glanced over but refused to stop and investigate. 

However the gentleman I found most interesting was a guy riding by on a bike. One of the bills had been blown to the ground under the dollar filled tree. This man saw the cash on the sidewalk, stopped, picked it up and went on his way. He never raised his head to see the fifty or more free dollars that hung invitingly right above his head.

Too often, we are like the guy on the bike. There are rich blessings that our Heavenly Father wants to give us right within our reach but because we can’t or won’t look up and see them, we miss out on these good gifts. By staring at the ground of life, we might think that temporary fun is all there is, but if we raise our head and search higher we’ll be knocked out by what we’d find.

God loves each of us, regardless of our orientation, and He desires to bless us if we will trust Him and raise our eyes to higher goals.  However, for a good number of us, this entails some effort, the very least of which is looking up. 

Calvin: And that folks is how the big picture looks to me. And why, you ask, is all this pre-existence stuff in Cal Thompson's Big Gay Book? The answer is because that is where we started. Not the womb and the birth canal. Not with nature or nurture. In fact, as I I picture the whole shebang in my mind, I see us closer to the middle that the beginning. We have already been spiritually created, lived and loved and been loved.  We were part of a huge counsel, made lasting choices and survived a war.  Then we were born on earth and have made it this far. 

 President Boyd K. Packer, former President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, taught: “There is no way to make sense out of life without a knowledge of the doctrine of premortal life. … When we understand the doctrine of premortal life, then things fit together and make sense.” 1

If you knew that God the Father is your father, and that he has a plan for you, that he knows your desires, your pain and your joy -- would that change things things up for you? Would it make a difference in how you treat yourself, others, or how you expected others to treat you?

Does it make any difference for you concerning your sexual orientation? 

It does for me. 



1 Boyd K. Packer, “The Mystery of Life,” Ensign, Nov. 1983, 18.

Scripture references to the pre-existence:

Spirit Children
Romans 8:16–17
Doctrine and Covenants 93:23, 29, 33–34
Abraham 3:22–23

Foreordination
Jeremiah 1:5
Alma 13:3
Doctrine and Covenants 138:55–56

Jesus Christ—Firstborn
John 1:1–2; 8:56–58; 17:5
1 Peter 1:19–20
Doctrine and Covenants 93:7, 21

Council in Heaven
Doctrine and Covenants 121:32
Moses 4:1–4
Abraham 3:24–28

War in Heaven
Revelation 12:4, 7–11
Doctrine and Covenants 29:36–37
Doctrine and Covenants 76:25–29

In the news

Mormon church makes historic donation to LGBTQ support group Affirmation for suicide prevention training

By Kathy Stephenson
Published: 18 hours ago
Updated: 33 minutes ago


The LDS Foundation, the charitable division of the Mormon church, has donated $25,000 to an LGBTQ support group to pay for suicide prevention training.

The gift is being called historic by Affirmation members, who say it marks the first time The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has worked with the independent support group for gay Mormons.

“Over the past decade, we have really spent a lot of time building a productive relationship with the LDS Church to create a safe space for LGBTQ people,” Affirmation President Carson Tueller said in an interview.
Please see this article:

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/07/10/mormon-church-makes/

Imagine

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865686947/Q-and-A-Imagine-Dragons-lead-singer-Dan-Reynolds-talks-music-Mormons-and-more.html

Always happy to hear what those with ties
to gay Mormons have to say.

Why was there no policy debate over the ten commandments -- a response to Elma Tanners attempt at the debunking of LDS leadership.

For those of us playing along at home -- reading criticisms of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints through Internet channels -- let me say that there is nothing in the Bible about a “processing” or debate over the Ten Commandments.

I am just a guy, just a member of the church. While I don't speak for the church in any capacity, I do speak for a WHOLE TON of us, and I am responding to an article titled "LDS Church’s Stance on Gay Marriage Reveals How Out-of-Touch the Religion Is" by Emma Tanner.

Frankly, I do not believe that it was ever the Lord's will that his church be "in-touch" with human society. His is a much bigger picture, it seems to me.

To answer her question, Mosses didn’t gather his close friends to debate the necessity of such a basic and general-purpose law that had been literally written in stone. 

The pattern of apostles being set apart had not been established by Jesus Christ. Apostles were called of the Lord starting when the Savior lived on the earth and organized His church - to my understanding.

The church was restored after the apostasy -- after the leaders of the church that Jesus Christ established were killed off. There are prophets and apostles on the earth today. So when the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ meet to discuss the need for changes or reiterations or new policies, and they seek the direction of the head of the church (the Savior, Jesus Christ) they are following an established procedure that was instigated by the Savior himself.

The LDS church and its people (of whom I am one) are not blaming God’s will or throwing any blame on him for the recent reiteration of policy -- as the author suggests.

"So, to fight independent and reasonable questioning and gain control, the LDS Church has fallen back on traditional methods of instilling fear and binding members together as some sort of desperate army against a rational and evolving society" she says.

Again, no. The LDS church has never deviated from its stance that the prophets and apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ receive revelation to guide the Lords church. It is my understanding that God's will does not evolve to mirror human society. Neither the body of the church (I'm part of that) nor it's leaders have ever held a meeting to decide God's will. Rather, our leaders -- prophets called of God -- may discuss the pros and cons of an issue as humans with agency, and then go to the Lord in prayer for revelation and guidance.

President Russell M. Nelson recently stated that "...The reality is that there are servants of Satan embedded throughout society. So be very careful whose counsel you follow.”

That doesn't sound like the threat that Tanner suggests it was. That sounds like a warning to be careful in deciding who to follow, which sounds like prudent advise to me.

I share some of the goals the author mentioned, specifically:

• A desire to think for myself, or "thinking independently"
• "Developing personal morals intended to create a better world of love acceptance, good work, service for those around us — (not for God, and not for reward, but for the sake of being a good human being)" 
• "Leaving the world better than it was when I arrived." 

I also believe that the prophets speak for the Savior and strive to follow his will. Whether those who have left the church choose to return or stay away, I will treat them with the love and respect that I would want for myself or for any of my friends or family. Regardless of popular policy and procedure or current understanding of His teachings, "love thy neighbor" is still the standard.

And we are not voting on that.

BYU -- Land of opportunity for a gay Mormon

This was the first real gay essay I ever wrote. It was bold for me and a little salacious though that was never my intent. I turned red as I looked through it again an hour ago. It was my first real attempt at aggressively taking charge of my life in writing, and I thought it was time for a re-visit.
Most everything I know about the gay lifestyle I learned at Brigham Young University. I don't blame the university. I don't blame the people I met there. I saw an opportunity that hadn't presented itself before -- one that I had apparently been looking for for quite a while -- and I made a choice.

It's not like there was a class or a club - though I hear there's one now with its own Facebook page. There wasn't a paragraph of my "Welcome to BYU" pamphlet that included gay as part of the Cougar experience. My first gay interaction as a consenting adult was with a guy I met when I came to Provo for higher education.

The Smith Field House was the place. I sat on a bleacher completely unanimously and watched guys play. They smacked each other, they ran each other over. The grabbed each another and wrestled. They touched each other, and I thought I would pass out on the spot. It wasn't just that young men were enjoying each other. There was something more to it. There was so much familiarity.

Later I figured that these intense relationship had to do with missions and same experiences and in guys usually a part of a minority suddenly swimming in guys who believed like they did; An instant brotherhood. 

I wanted to be one of them. They were contemporaries, my Mormon friends -- or guys I wished were my friends -- who looked at me (if they looked at me at all) as some guy doing homework in the bleachers.

At the end of my first year at BYU I discovered that the men's rooms were the places to meet guys who were looking for... whatever I was looking for. There was graffiti that pointed the way, and some of the writing on the wall made it really clear what the author was looking for.

So I sat there and waited for some signal from the guy in the next stall. I got all the signals I wanted, but I didn't know what to do. I figured it out quickly. We were all fast learners.

There is is. That's how I started. In a men's room at a church school. I was a fool more than a naive. Regardless, I became a regular.

It wasn't until months later that I heard that guys were picked up, and by that I mean that they were arrested or kicked out of school when undercover cops made their own kind of contact. I was lucky. Later, I was experienced enough to know when I was being played. So I didn't find myself in that horrible position of being outed as it came to be known, by an undercover cop.

I once was caught by someone I figured was a professor who interrupted a beginner in a tryst. I just sat there looking at my shoes until he left. I couldn't bear to look up at the man scolding me for fear that I might be recognized or that I might recognize him.

Once I made a connection with a guy. Looking over the stall I recognized him as a fellow music major who was a friend of mine. I was horrified. I believe to this day that he recognized me, though there was never an acknowledgement. This was my first obvious foray into leading a double life.

You would think that these few experiences would have kept me "clean and sober" as it were, the fear of getting caught, would discourage me from involving myself in the behaviors.

No. It didn't make me do anything but to be smarter and careful and look for other places to find what I wanted -- and there were plenty of other places.

You find what you look for. Down deep I don't know what I was looking for at that time. But I found it at BYU

Does this have to do with being gay and being Mormon?

I have been helping a friend deal with an ongoing problem in his life.  (I would never give out any personal information, including name and specific circumstances, so forgive me if I appear vague.)

My friends name is Bob. (Sorry, I don't want to spend too much time coming up with a name for him.)

Bob was abused when he was a child -- something I am finding out to be unbelievably common.

As an adult, Bob has the kind of problems that you would assume.  Some post traumatic stress, trust issues, relationships issues, sexual issues -- you know the drill.  And these issues are difficult to deal with, and make being his friend unpredictable.

Then there are ongoing issues with the family he grew up in.  Obviously, by my writing this, it is obvious that he wants out. His background affects everything he does, including his relationship with the LDS church -- which he is actively pursuing.  He would like to go through the temple, etc.

Now, I know all about the atonement and how what the Lord did for us makes everything possible, but it is hard to convince Bob (did I really pick the name Bob?) that this applies to him; That the atonement includes him and his situation regardless of how evil (his word) he may feel.

I know that this is sooo not politically correct for me to ask, but how many of you, dear readers, have come from a similar circumstance?

If you comment, please feel free to keep it anonymous.

.

LDS Gay and the F word.

In my work I am on the phone a lot.  I walk around with a headset and just plug in when necessary.  While on the phone with a person in California I was attacked because my voice sounded gay.

Attacked, I tell you!

OK, it wasn't really an attack. She called me a faggot (sorry to use that word) and offered to set me up with her ex-husband. I suppose that her thinking that I would be a match for her ex-husband should have clued me in that might have been little problem with projection going on.

And I would like to think that if she was face to face with me she would see that I am a person and not feel comfortable calling me names.

What does that mean, by the way, that I sound gay?  Was I coming across as way too smart?
Why, yes I was.  I know my stuff at work and I try to present it quickly and efficiently. However, not all gays have an IQ like I do (Oh, please) and they don't all access information as quickly (Oh, please-er).

Was it my charming sense of humor?  How about the three colones I had tried on during lunch?Was it that she couldn't get what she wanted from me professionally and decided to put me down in frustration?

YES!  And that is what really gets my goat. People act all politically correct on the outside, and in their hearts they still consider being gay as sub par, as less-than.

Which leads me to think -- something I am not used to.   Are there some people I consider myself to be more than?  Do I consider myself better than others that I come into contact with in the course of the day?

This is a faggot, and you are a pig.  Wish I could have said that.

Frankly, yes.

And I am convinced that is wrong.  I should not feel that I deserve any special treatment or special privileges than anyone else.

I am a bit arrogant.  However, my sense of self isn't super developed.  I can't look myself in the mirror and give myself a thumbs up.  So, do I try to pull others down a bit in order to feel , for lack of a better term, that I don't suck as badly?

Maybe.

That still does not give anyone an excuse to call me a faggot.

Dog day afternoon on the overpass by Geneva Road

This is not a gay post, even though the reference is a fairly gay movie.

Our dog was hit by a car today. No, she was not a gay dog, but she did have a rhinestone collar.

I was required to go and get the body -- something you don't really think about when you adopt that adorable puppy and put it under the tree for your son to unwrap at Christmas. 

I took it to the county animal shelter where they would dispose of it for ten dollars. That sounds a bit insensitive, but we do not live in an area where we could bury her on our land.  

Meg the Wonder Dog and friend

The place where I grew up was a virtual pet cemetery - something we neglected to tell the new owners.  (Won't that be a fun day for Mr. and Mrs. Just-bought-a-lot-of-land. "Yes, honey, we'll just put this new tree right here by this large stone and... Ar-ugh!".)
 
Numerous dogs, cats, gerbils, two and a half lambs (don't ask), chickens, several other birds, assorted aquarium fish, bunnies a hedgehog and something that died in our pond that we never could identify. 

North Shelly, Idaho. Probably not a good place to be around Halloween.

That's it. No startling revelations. Just a firm reminder that there is more to this life than we can see, and that is hugely comforting to me -- not just that Meg the Wonder Dog will go on, but that we as a family will go on as well.  

And so will everyone -- and all the friends we have made and the myriad of friends we have yet to make and those friends and family we had so long ago that we have forgotten.  

We all will have the chance to go on and live wonderfully and have marvelous existences.

Doesn't help me from shedding a few tears for Meg the Wonder Dog, however.

Is it a right to marry?

I started writing this several months ago and thought better of it.  I am not one to fight "against" something as opposed to being "for" something. And I am a card carrying member of the LDS church and I am proud to say that. However, I am now rethinking my rethinking of this post. I will allow you to judge it for yourself. Please comment if you have something to say.

Two weeks ago, on November 4, several Mormons of the US Senate voted for the passing of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) protecting homosexuals in the work environment.

 

A week later, several local stakes of the LDS church in Oahu Hawaii were read instructions in their weekly Sunday meetings in regard to how to go about taking action against local legislation that would secure civil marriage rights for homosexuals in the state.

 

Mormons received what is considered a revelation from God concerning sexuality in the form of the "Proclamation of the Family".  Let me be specific: I consider the Proclamation on the family to be a revelation.  With that in mind, I have made the following correlation:

Mormons believe that is is NOT okay to discriminate against celibate gays, but it IS okay to discriminate against gay people that are sexually active?

I have watched the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- my church -- in our dealing with people who are different.  Gays would be considered different, a minority, a segment of the population of Mormons and non Mormons alike, though I believer that the percentage of Mormon gays in higher than outside of the church.

Felons would be considered another minority. So would smokers, or black people.  The French. Pepsi drinkers. People still sporting a Dorthy Hamel hair-doo. 

Aside from a natural curiosity, an "I-am-staring-at-you-because-you-are-different-from-what-I-am-used-to" sort of a thing, my experience of us Mormons is that we are more accepting of those who are different -- as long as they are sitting on a pew (read: trying to follow the Mormon way of life). 

Homosexuality is not the numeric norm.  But if a gay man came to priesthood meeting, his nice shoes really wouldn't stand out from the well-worn, black Stacy Adams utilitarian dress shoes the married R.M. next to him is wearing.  If his suit is well fitting and there is a little product in his hair, he can still sit by the man with a bit of dried baby formula on his tie.  He might even be asked to hold the baby while daddy searches the diaper-bag for wipes.

If he pickets general conference however, he won't be invited over for family-home evening. 

So, how do we Mormons treat sinners?  You know -- the people who are doing the things that we believe should not be done, like cheating on taxes or mowing the lawn on Sunday;  Shoplifting or having a democrat corrugated plastic signage on the front lawn.

What would we do with a gay couple in sacrament meeting?  

Often, when I see that we Mormons have politically mobilized to fight gay marriage rights, its because we believe that granting those rights will someday mean that our own religious freedoms are at stake.  Granting the right, or acknowledging that gay men have the right to marry -- depending on your belief -- will threaten LDS marriage and temple practices.  Many of us believe that he next logical step, after gays have the rights to marry, is that the LGBT community will demand the right to marry in LDS temples.  

Religious freedom -vs- civil rights?

I have seen supporters of LGBT marriage rights actually roll their eyes when the religious freedom card is played by Mormons -- me.  They tell me that losing religious freedom couldn't happen.  Then I open a history book and get a differing point of view.

Polygamy, anyone? 

The problem with bring up the anti-polygamy crusades by the United States government in the late 1800's is that Mormons have to admit that we believed, abit for a short time, that polygamy was appropriate for that time -- a belief we put much energy into distancing ourselves from. The U.S. government targeted Mormon polygamy and a short time later the practice was effectively eliminated from the body of the LDS church.  Could government action affect such a change again? 

Okay, so it probably wouldn't happen.

Are Mormon willing to take the risk that allowing marriage rights for all those pursuing happiness will also allow for government to affect their religious belief in celestial marriage that is only achieved in a temple by people following the law of chastity?

At the moment, no. However beliefs (not standards or morals) are changing at lighting speed. All this brings me to the following question:  Whether or not we agree with the morality of the practice, does anyone have the right to deny consenting adults the right to marry?

Utah politicians fight same-sex marriage

A federal judge in Utah has ordered the state to permit same-sex marriages.  This decision seems to be transforming the local gay-rights stage into a grand showing on a national civil rights stage -- and frankly, I am happy to have the battle happen in my adopted home state.

Is marriage a civil right, Mormons ask?

Utah officials, including Governor Gary Herbert, asked US Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor to put a temporarily stay on the federal judge’s decision made on December 20th of 2013 -- a ruling that requires the state of Utah to permit same-sex marriages as per constitutional law despite a state constitutional amendment outlawing same sex marriage.

Justice Sotomayor responded by saying no, and requesting more information from legal representatives of several gay couples who have been challenging the initial Utah state ban. Those briefs are due in court on Friday, Jan 3rd.

Meanwhile -- back at the farm --  more than 900 same-sex couples have taken advantage of the judge’s ruling and have obtain marriage licenses in Utah.

The Christian Science Monitor states: "The immediate question is whether the judge’s same-sex marriage order should be stayed pending further appeals, the underlying issues will require Sotomayor – and perhaps the entire high court – to address the single most significant question in the legal debate over gay marriage. The question is whether same-sex couples have a fundamental right to marry under the US Constitution."

Once again, the national question is not whether the public agrees with homosexuals or homosexuality, or even the right to be homosexual.  What is being decided is whether marriage is a civil right as defined by the constitution.